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>> If you do introduce several days of the any. Despite of what you see on her. Resume she goes but you know her. Name with which she publishes. Sepideh got her bachelor's at the University of number in Germany as well as in San Diego then she did a beauty next blank.

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Followed by a post doc at u.c. Berkeley with Margaret and I had. The honor it's. Doing both talk at the same lab so we interacted there for a while and we even your space we sat next to each other like you know a really good experience for me I learnt a lesson so happy.

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She followed by another short phone talk at Stanford and then became an assistant professor at university if you know your vanishing paintings that I can 16 that video has been extremely successful she has already are one grand and are going one grand. And she publishes really well and she what she works on is this combination of a former e.g. an i.e.d. And I think you can tell us about that as well as network properties of the brain really looking forward to your presentation Seppi.

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Thanks so much to be and thanks so much for and by the it's exciting to at least a virtual reconnecting with you so as we mentioned I will be talking about integrating f.m.r.i. and. To learn specifically in this park about the large scale potential critics and I hope that I will be able to convey the message that really comparing them with Alice is going to tell us more of them each one alone.

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I just want to start with thanking those who might we be presenting they have today as well as members that are currently correct collecting. A lot of the video that you will see the stock are actually. Coming through collaboration some extremely thankful for the generous spirit of sharing here.

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As well as collaboration's on that that's Ok so I'll be starting with an introduction af what the intrinsic next home is and focusing on if I'm right because that's the method of choice by far to look at the whole grain products so I will then move on to hopefully convince you that electricity logical measures can be use to study the intrinsic on its own and I mean full weight and then the 2nd section of the talk will be about the Met a mortal integration often from her high end of the physiology 1st looking at the spot social sceptic or prime average connect on in focusing on the spatial relationships and then moving on to time very makes and how they may or may not hold her across the modalities.

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So I'll start here with the notion that the brain as highly active irrespective of what the person is doing at a given moment so you're probably all very familiar with this argument by now that the brain is consuming about 20 percent of the body's energy irrespective of whether it's actually mentally into each resting or sleeping event so this is a measure because consumption and you can really appreciate the high energy the mass compared to other energetically demanding organs.

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So the way we typically tend to think about this evokes brain responses or the way we generally have been studying the brain for a long time using your imaging intellect of so logical methods as well as that we provide an external stimulus and somehow. This goes through our senses and then the brain shows.

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What we call prototypical immediate veridical evoke response but if you actually look at the trial by trial response you will add an enormous amount of variability which is the very reason why for example your piece need to be repeated over many trials So eventually there potentials are really by definition a trial average than the average really looks like a textbook signal this is actually intracranial recording from primary auditory cortex but they just wanted to show you how the individual of office sponsors may be very variable from trying to trial of the same sound and how much background activity there is actually in the space I personally sions So my thought about intrinsic what I mean as simply all of the brain's activity that is not the regular evoked by an external stimulus so just for clarifying that the finishing ends and.

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A lot of what I will show today are looking at connectivity matrices so the way those are constructed and where I is that you typically have a whole range for solution of the brain there is various ways of using or defining these personal actions and for any given brain reaching paraphrasing regions will look at the fluctuation of the ball signal so between these 2 regions you look for example see high temple concordance which will result in a high Pearson correlation value and there are regions then that also have very low correlations.

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So looking at the resting brain or in any. Brain state really you can retrieve based on these low and high correlations this is so-called canonical intrinsic connectivity networks for example for motor auditory visual or source light tension and so on and so forth and really this is a suspicion of the Phantom's component analysis of wresting f.m.r.i. activity you will see that the brain has intrinsically organized in these canonical networks that actually do reflect the same core activation patterns we typically see during any given tasks and if you know I do these regions off the parcel a Ch'an along the reasons that these intrinsic networks you get this whole brain kind of tentative matrix typically you know if I'm right representing Pearson correlations and you will see a line that they act on all is canonical networks organizing all their whole brain kind of function be thought of as something like a communication network of the brain which we can study also using graph tool similar to ways that we use for social networks for example and for the logical space.

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Now an important property of the connected as observer of f. m.r.i. is that it's incredibly stable over mental states so this has been shown in your is different studies here to the right you see a and average across a large number of subjects on average when it's all over possibly resting state to let you see a subject average when it's all men averaged over numerous parts and the spatial correlation between these 2 special patterns is 2 organizations of connectivity is extremely high.

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All that were over and above the stable organisation there are subtle changes in the kind of tone from moment to moment the so-called time very dynamics and I'm just illustrating here why those actually matter so this is an example study where we show that those subtle changes in the continent's power from Woman one moment for the next is actually impacting behavior so this is a critical left there you without any response to food given sound and we have a number of experiments where we spent out our child it's an extremely sparse matter so these are 20 to 40 seconds a trial that's not Walt's which he has these windows that are free off that you might have any response so we then built these all by all kind of correlations matrices from individual one those prior to trial so the well actually treats might have some differences from one Prince to the next and if these spends 2 machine learning algorithm we can actually predict above chance this is the distribution of chance accuracy of the prediction and we can predict that love with an off chance accuracy whether or not the subject is going to perform well on the next trial in this particular experiment the stimulus was a threshold level sounds and so because it was pain the subject with miss it on half the trials and if you were on the other half and.

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Whether or not the subject is able to perceive the sound the pen's on these precincts States you have replicated similar similar findings and other sensory modalities and other types and yet. Another aspect of the study is that we can build the simple logical wraps and I'm showing those for one subject here.

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Prior to successful the question of the sound and prior to missing this and we found that the organisation into these canonical intrinsic connectivity networks as new are stable as is more segregated these networks are better better defined prior to hits compared to misses also the global if you can see that prior to the Misses the spatial organisation into the intrinsic networks breaks on to some degree on period of 2.

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Hits and compared to a task resting state so this is just the mention that it's the end spite of the sailor going is a show and we really. Are seeing a behavioral impact the significance of the entrance of contact on Ok I'm not going on so much physiology so the most typical traditional view e.g. and f. m.r.i. as that there is some level of.

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Neural activity aligns between a large enough number of neurons that generates electrical or magnetic signals that can be picked up by a letter for so I try to measure so over the skull and that the same you would like to be through the human eye and makeup playing generates signals that can be picked up by if there's this idea that there is a shared normal basis and then there is of course without the specific noise which will result in some level of this quarter and when we compare it to the signals directly with each other in the context of Cornish 71 particularly important source of noise for noninvasive measurements is signal leakage.

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So I fortunately the underlying electrical and magnetic signals are actually spreading over space in such a way that at sensor level we're not sure where the signals are actually coming from and so we have this mathematical infrastructure that we need to go from the sensor space into the sources and the Spur have a major reason why people have shied away from using noninvasive as a physiological measurements in order to look at large scale connectivity another aspect that perhaps causes caution is the very aspects are a little has a marginal measurements and that is that they are so rich compared to the f. m.r.i. signal don't particularly as you may have brain regions for example here age that's couple to each other with respect to the faces of their ongoing activity so much along going at the previous start up has been lost so it's very over and a half.

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So one of our f. distribution off the background back on signal so it's also as we ask is typically the part of ongoing activity that is used. To build connectivity so we just can be coupled with respect to the faces of those associations or that's what it's at least with respect to the amplitude of those oscillations for example these 2 regions not because all and in terms of attitude I've given frequency above that in terms of face but then of course you could also have both where and every time you hear can have this coupling and are politically at the same time so meters more complicated.

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Eating is actually or all or if was only for physiological measurements are actually standing for orders of temporal magnitude anywhere from infra so all she has what's the record in the pulse signal and if you allow your apple fires actually record that range all the way to the range of the canonical frequency $200.00 hertz and higher so you can the find if you're in very displeased when it comes to the physiological signals in spite of the methodological difficulties of signal the kid is just illustrating here one of the general pipelines that can be used and has successfully been used in order to look at whole brain kind of thumbs using stop data from the wrong e.g. signal you will typically want to filter in a signal in.

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These kind of nickel oscillation ranges or there are studies that are looking at the broadband she signal as well we then have source localized the signals from the skull onto a mesh our individual sources in the brain and then average those source signals across a human brain are solutions similar to Hollywood average walks of wise all signals across regions of an atlas then we can now look at either Yash will face off the signal or the power envelope.

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And that's them a face cut place or absent you quickly as I just mentioned in order to retrieve. All brain connectivity matrices and then do any other part of computation as we regularly do with quite a concert trip from the f. m.r.i. there are some other steps necessary unfortunately have to be over conservative and so all the way a lot of the good signal just because we want to be sure that we're not looking at serious connectivity that is coming from the scene.

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It is based on the same signal projecting to the stance. Location so. I'm happy to discuss this if anybody is interested but the major point I want to make is one of these cautious steps have been taken there is a mounting amount of evidence from various different labs so we can meaningfully look at.

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The whole ring clinic's on using g. and h. e. So this is only g. so he. Actually a stage showing in a sea based manner see correlations that are typical and I'm right now using receive a good number of these intrinsic now works then not only using temporal i.c. on resting state and she.

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You see this astonishing similarity between the spatial and the pen and components that we are so familiar with and if I'm right this is always the top role compared to the matching components from any chain and you see various That friend networks airballs the primary sensory and motor networks as well as the higher order networks such as that the 4 more that were.

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Left and Right executive control and so on well so be sure that we turn this couple some of the major points once a mate in the absence of signal problems I 1st moved to intracranial studies here. And then I will move back to sculp a little bit later on so this is an example of how an actual course you Copperfield may look like in patients where.

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Of course is this human subjects are undergoing surgery for medical reasons and typically there will be intractable epilepsy where patients are not well responding to to meditation. During the time that they're in the hospital this takes a week to lease depending on the subjects we have a lot of time to collect collect these patients.

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So. It is as opened up and then the electrodes are placed directly on the critical surface like here and of course we don't get whole brain coverage so that's one of the major drawbacks are electric or Twitter feed but I'm just putting here 3 example subjects from the subject the available data set with use for this particular study and you can see that these grids are actually covering more than one lobe so very often at least temporal and frontal lobes sometimes more private areas and some one bench where we have we have coverage of various different functional areas so for one particular subject I'm serious showing the quantity to me tricks using face locking value subsists phase Billie's connectivity in the future.

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For all you liberals that we had available for this particular subject and the point that I want to nature here is that when you look at possibly rest things being worse is a very common good with amounting to back working memory tasks you seen quite a bit of suspicion similarity and for this particular mission we have much hires similarity than looking at for example the.

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So not sunrising the similarity across mental states we will come to the 2 a similar viewpoint that has been previously established for f.m.r.i. but I'm sure and here to the left are spatial Pearson correlation value so they're in vs you actually turn on my laser pointer if you sure you can see this but the spatial correlation values of them shown here are plotted in every element of the snake tricks and then I'm going through the different mental states I have possibly resting state I have pre-stimulus baseline from 2 different tasks and then I have 3 very different tasks as the saying are tapping rope generation and 2 back working memory the other aspect I'm sure there are the French and article fit Quincy Vance here side by side so a lot of the small they are going on as you always see the within frequency similarity across the mental states and then off they are going on you will see the cross frequency similarities so these numbers are extremely high this is average across any where depending on the comparison anywhere between $45.00 subjects $800.00 subjects we also assess the supporters within individual subjects and individualized models and.

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Similarily special similarities significant in every almost every single subject and on this at least single comparison were shown here in the bottom So another way to look at the same data is one minus the correlation value cyclists similarity here the point that I'm trying to make here is that this similarity of resting States will rest in states where we just look at the how is no is not any stronger then resting state to the past or even any task for another task.

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So again the straight out parts is just making the point that what we know from the from right from the stability of the actual conduct on their whole street when I had to fill out all measurements and other points is the similarity between the various ways of connectivity can be defined in ongoing oscillations to the left and chilling out into the coupling and to the right action is coupling this is measured as stays up in value in terms of these lack consistency over trials this is during past performance and this is a post post stimulus activation middle.

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Of his or just for example subjects here and I'm going to show you this special correlation between this matrix and that matrix and the foregoing slide so again we have a stimulus here in a given task and then we're looking at the correlation matrix retrieved from the pulse in less time either in terms of this coupling or athlete is coupling that's what I shown here in the black lines every single black dot is one patient so the spatial correlation and for different canonical frequency bands and the possible spirited This is the period that has typically looked at one brittle inhabitant of c o n g u c a moderate size but.

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In every single subject significant and or elation here are the now models at the bottom but what's interesting also is that the correlation between face coupling apples coupling despite already present. In the precinct it was a sign so really built their connectivity matrices not from the baseline here and then look at the space the correlation between athlete and face coupling this is shown in the green color here it's almost it's almost identical to the post you notice period if the 1st the tracked this matrix from that me tricks so we just have a difference matrix of what changed in the connectivity pattern from baseline to task we get the orange line which is extremely low spatial Similary So really all that similarity between the $230.00 measures is already present irrespective of the past so it's not half 3 minutes really difference to the brain Well just to summarize what I showed you here in the set of connectivity section is that the function going to talk can be meaningfully study using skull and into cranial if Yalit g. that it's a celestial kind of films are very stable across frequency bands then across coupling modes space coplanar Amphicar plane and that they are very stable of course mental states.

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In. What actual is from right and intracranial Sorry I don't actually sure they're right that's that's it's a concert so they're there from right from the background that's here as well as the entry hole that I just showed so not hatchling moving to them or to model kind of concept 1st car the static context told him so this is the time average kind of tone and then I will move on to topple the m.m.x..

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Well as I mentioned earlier we can use a similar class or prepare solution for source space localization up the signal similar to the office that we use for a rise so if we do the same happiness and questioning that's to me a rather low resolution why not because of the limitations of e.g. sources of elicitation But if we use the same advice from both modalities we can establish a static.

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Time Everett's 20 percent perception at 40 and I then one for e.g. for any canonical frequency band all this is older they go by you not I'm just saying this and he has shown that before and he subject average comic to tell you why and reasonable. Moderate size correlation spatial correlation between the f. m.r.i. triste connectivity strength and that he she has the strength So in this case I'm showing an imaginary coherence from the meter some are now used for observed or other frequency bounds so every dot in the slot is one connection off that connectivity Matrix or just plotting the strength of those connections across the modalities of the particularly interesting piece of data that will convince me to go into.

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Looking at clinic phones with the. So so this is copied and concurrent f.m.r.i. is that the relationship between. This friend and structural connectivity is at least as strong as that observed between f. m.r.i. and structural comic that at least for the **** used here well of course all of it issues that come along with such comparisons but this has been that replicate it.

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Or does has been previously tional some other studies are using up his cup playing again also with concurrently Jennifer pride but I thought last thought the structural kind of song here is as I me the truck driver a few from the fusion way to imaging so also not invasive the fact that there correlations are negative is just based on the way the connectivity is the kind here based on average hotlink but important is here the effect size So again this is such an average connections and.

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The reason for sizing this is in the early days when f.m.r.i. resting on it he came along and people are very skeptical what the might be driven by. Vasculature and other sources of noise that affect the former prime. One important piece. Of Porterfield was. Was the saucer mission and the f m i this kind of someone has this relationship to the underlying brain structure and that was convincing a lot of people that as sort of looking at the intrinsic clinical musing if I'm right so if that I'm even less taken at face value then we should feel fairly fairly good about the fact that in spite of source that there is enough information in the whole brain Equinix known to work with.

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Another really really important observation we meet recently is that when you build the nice correlation these correlation values between f. m.r.i. and concurrently she you seem to always see a moderate small to moderate effect size the wrong points for a known matter what the setting and what the data processing so there's some push this knowledge in one and a half that's all the way up to 7 Tests like from 64 Egypt channels 2 to 56 anywhere from 10 subjects to $26.00 subjects and every data set and all matter what we do we seem to have across all the easy frequency bands the same level of spatial correlation there just seems to be and that troll caps that we just can't write up.

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And it might be even more. Visible in the spot here where we're showing the similarity between. The spatial similarity with the end from right or act on it. As a function of the number of subjects going in and you see that for all frequency bands anywhere between 7 and 12 subjects or chapter correlation at this medium range and in fact above one subject we don't gain more than one percent off correlation of the effect size just moving on and adding more data we observe the same thing by.

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By the fact that. Not more that 5 minutes resting state is actually going to improve the similarity and also a little using different parcel issues of the brain isn't helping anything and so show your data for face coupling we sold something very similar perhaps to come. There seems to be this natural barrier that we can't overcome that somehow makes me feel that we're not just fighting.

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For the logical noise that causes this that this weapon system the rebel is that there might be more to it that another piece of information that really convinced me to see your point is this this study by then that said they are looking at intracranial recordings and offline signals from another set of subjects what they're going to hear is actually looking at the anti holding clinics home by merging whatever edge is available from the given patient across 100 patients so they're taking whatever piece of the context when they can find any given subject and they put them together and compare them to is subject subject average and from right on its own they seem to see a similar range of connectivity values no matter what frequency range they're talking so very similar using intracranial data in the absence of source leakage we also wanted to move on beyond.

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Correlations and actually do they determine the composition of by mortal concurrently record its scope and from right here so what we've done here is building a static contact on per subject for f.m.r.i. in the person per frequency band for each team or we basically just vectorized the f.m.r.i. cheek when it's done and glue them together and then respect the subjects and frequency bands.

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This is a I see a as you will typically nowhere except that typically I see a is use on the signal time series but here we are using I see 8 on the connectivity values list of. I think one of us can I see a it's I see essentially of these going to be patterns or subjects so what we're asking here is what patterns of the South East Asia and Africa quietened are cool expressed over subject so we call those hybrid traits.

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You find. Replicated across 2 different later cells at one and a half and 3 test lab and various different recording settings to find one very stable hybris. Conduct on trades which has a similar relatively similar spatial pattern between f. m.r.i. and. So we show using modularity for example and other approaches that these patterns relatively well informed with those spatial organizations that that are stronger within the canonical networks as well as in contrast to across the there is not and there is a significant spatial summarily between these and they seem to recap we have essentially the intrinsic organization of the brain that works here I'm just showing the subject specific in frequency specific weights off these office patterns there pretty broadly distributed across all peoples.

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But what I actually want to emphasize here is a 2nd Street that we found so fun to have very stable creates that replicated across the in a sense and this is a country spatially has nothing to do between even if I'm right you until by definition it is called Express So this is this represents a hybrid by model of trade off the contact on but is spatially Extremely the score tense between the 2 methodologies another piece of information that seems to suggest that there is something.

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Substantially different different happening between that's what ality Let me close with the last section here by moving to time very nice and I mix these little people I talk talk to the full hour now your Group thanks so much though I'm sure you have heard. About about some dynamics and other settings that it is becoming more and more.

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Of interest to the new imaging community to look at how the changes of the quantum can be characterized and the reason that matters is the study I showed early in the introduction and those that kind of dynamic seem to actually impact here. We typically look at the credits on the way I showed it up to now which is building an average home it's own by putting in all the read the data points from the entire recording However one could build these time varying credits ohms by essentially having shorter windows from which the connectivity is still and at certain times points you might find clinics ones that are pretty similar to the septic clinics on but at other times there might be quite a bit affiliations from what the.

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Simple average clinics on the quiet and this has been have papa sites to actually represent sort of cognitive. Cognitive architectures or common to models that each might be supportive of a different kind of. Processing. Something essentially that might be good for a particular task and after other tasks and that the brain is exploring these patterns in an answer to matter.

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This has been again studied almost explicitly in the from arrive but of course e.g. as them I thought the choice one were interested at anythings and coral it has much better temporal resolution so what we have done is applying these typical sliding window quality top approaches for concurrent sculpt each He and summarise So in this case we have a 62nd window because we're using just a correlation and we need fortunately enough time flies to build a stable kind of thought to give him points and your stepping up the resolution of our arrive recording we do the same thing for e.g. So we build imaginary quote here and it's.

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Context and source base and then average the coherence value for one minute window and then step over the same time we've built Mitchell information for every edge of this context often compared that to an appropriate non model so we're asking for everything edge of the quantity and whether that change in quantity fits you over time as a company by changing on its own within f.m.r.i. And I'm showing here.

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Subject few values essentially almost 100 percent of the connections of the context are surpassing the not all model and term social weighting called dynamics between she wanted to be factual ations and I for my political party to a sense and prosper resting state giving an off day to us so we had a recognition that us had your subjects and shorter recordings and say about one 3rd of the connections passing the knowledge model.

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So this is this is possibly on for money correct that by the way or over 2000 connections so that's incredibly strong relationships if you have enough data but I have to emphasize this is in value for every single age separately so we're not looking here at the quantity of the strip you should are spatial pattern overall.

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But the major point here is that I'm just here plotting the talk to hundreds. There just for every frequency band in its relationship to have a more I see that it's not the case that this tool to talk to 100 are restricted to a certain section of the contacts on it looks like every frequency band Willie has connectivity distributed across the entire county from here shown as a circle graph some just essentially putting those off as parcels around the circle here there are differences of 2 if you look at how the how the edges are treated over to the region barrister definitely different says but the major points here is that the station owners are experiencing history that over the entire brain.

[00:38:16]
Well I wanted to improve on the study in 2 ways 1st of all as I mentioned our previous study was just looking at every edge and asking whether changes in the kind of strength strength off that particular region here in the brain are relieved that we have from Iraq we now wanted to look at the pattern of the contacts on with this notion that there are these these these treats quasi discrete clinical states that the brain is cycling through which means that the actual spatial pattern matters so in the next study wanted to move to spatial correlations and be given window of time the other thing we wanted to improve on is moving away from piercing correlations as having an incentive in us kind of thing we measure for a from our eye which afforded us much shorter when those this next study is actually produced short intracranial concurrent you know from our eyes and the reason for sizing the somewhat is that the status that is absolutely unique in the world and having concurrent measurements from the human brain intracranial e with from our eye and I'm really fortunate and thankful for the collaborators from u.c. London that have generously shared as all of us.

[00:39:37]
So again what they've done is let me. Say on me let me try to circle back and see if I can start it. So what I'm just illustrating here is visually the calculation that we made so we generated at every single window we generate a kind of time for every patient and do they do that for bold and concurrent IP to Scotland and face Cup play and then every year window we assess the 2 dimensional spatial correlation between f.m.r.i. and.

[00:40:19]
So here's the myth of the strain of the Can we have a single window a right kind of films and single window huge Equinix homes and that we just bought the. Special Pearson correlations over time what is great out here is the level and the states and by an appropriate non model to only the City star or our sections are actually surpassing our not model for a special similarity on a single frame essentially between g. and f. m.r.i. I want to quantify this in a minute so you can have another look at it but 1st I want to say that if we Elm pick different approaches so so sorry to hear it serious here is the same dimensional Pearson correlation between f.m.r.i. and phase coupling measured as locking value and.

[00:41:13]
These great areas are the time points that surpassed that non model level. In the bottom actually an alternative approach using canes clustering of this in states is one of the Senate approaches there isn't much of models of Keynes cross train off in the visual windows of connectivity so that you just have they determine a way off to find these.

[00:41:40]
Quote unquote discrete states of the conics all so color coding just shows here a kind of comparison between Jennifer on the right of course her for example in this color you would see how the kind of film pair that actually is aligning with the times of significant cross modal spatial relationship and they called her between the 2 what are these at a later time points as well so essentially the spot is showing that the points peg points and which there isn't a box and spatial similarity between the g. and I'm arrived Coraline's with a separate method that actually looks at.

[00:42:20]
They different way off finding discrete states within the context that makes. So I promised your quantification of the number of times when those actually surpassed their no model and it was shockingly little we have tried this with their friend when the what if Try this using after his coupling and face complaint and also importantly never replicate that using skull pull brain Chronicles of the healthy brain using Agent concurrent from our eyes so we see the exact same picture.

[00:42:55]
Not just within a small patches of the cortex but using the whole brain on its own and of course using the healthy the cortex as opposed to the patients so there seems to be something true about the shockingly low Ok sions and which the spatial pattern of the clinical meets between.

[00:43:18]
And from our eyes and I'll close with that by summarizing that there is across a little similarity of the static clinical we're going to say Shannon between f. m.r.i. and ichi them a lot of the effect sizes are on point 3 that I was showing where if you actually average the connection within what ality 1st across subjects so you have the subject averaged prototypical chronic tone and f.m.r.i. and a prototypical kind of comment those share a moderate size relationship if you look at this it will individual subjects you actually find anything that when Points one and points through correlations both for sculp e.g. concurrent m.r.i. as well as intracranial he she ever from the right as well as offline any g. and f. m.r.i. from other mass they have confirmed this small effect size that we just don't seem to be able to surpass for some reason.

[00:44:16]
The cross mossel section of clinician winds impressed on dynamics on the 62nd a very small windows at this single connection. Evaluation shows a significant relationship between them without these and almost every edge of the brain and every frequency band however her whole brain quantum states the patterns seem to need to cross from one doll it is only on rare occasions and the same spatial pattern seem to be explored by from writing in.

[00:44:53]
The spatial patterns that they show in a dynamic fashion are actually specially similar they just don't call occurrence time well one reason for that is that the cycling through its much much more rapidly than I am right and I have not shown that the Us Here where I'm happy to discuss it or shows and bigger so that's really exciting work that is on win right now to show that there is a special court as it just isn't totally comported And so I'm left with this notion the as much as I want to look for commonalities.

[00:45:31]
Just that they post it in the friend language to me they just suggesting to me the more I look the more rule the us has that they urge him that when f. m.r.i. in Gene and I want to suggest that that may actually have some neural reasons it's not just the noise in e.g. f.m.r.i. that's contributing to the Course not about emergence but there might be a alternative view that there is some level of shared neural activity that comes from the same neural sources and it's reflected in both modalities However there is also neural activity that might be a way to get much more strongly in the gene and converse the other type of neural I think you know those with a more strongly know a moron I and they don't really overlap much in our measurement.

[00:46:20]
So I want to close with this direct quote from one of the leaders of Hari. She's suggesting any and he she waits trying the the hospice conducting pathways for a some time all right probably be seen as its main contribution from your ensembles that are kind of why it's slow and then 5 groups they get there by apparently reflecting functionally different brain activation.

[00:46:50]
So I'm tending to think about that as meaning is really thick Mylan they don't fibers like highways here and then haven't the brain also he's been there it's slower less money to fibers and they they're entrenched why and sometimes they might be run run in parallel such as frontage roads that are running for large sections and parallel to the highways but you might say well why would I care unless I'm doing this kind of research that there is some kind of stuff that can be picked up by from or I and other stuff by the saliva Why would I care unless I have a mythological interest in the soil.

[00:47:33]
It may suggest that the brain is fundamentally a multi time scale system and the reason that that's the case is because comedy a different comet of the seas are actually unfolding different speeds off necessity dictates that I need each other and that argument is beautiful it made in this talk that she gave in the tire pressure and Roma the last and person you know that we had so I should have that u.r.l. for you I highly recommend this she is not focusing on connectivity but much more generally.

[00:48:07]
Activity in the context of cognition and how clinician can be slow or fast and that we need both and how those speeds are reflected differentially potentially in different modalities and I would like to leave you with perhaps our conclusion and actually am for being here today in for having.

[00:48:34]
Those those wonderful dark so if you if anybody has questions police or put them into a charity or if you want to arm yourself and ask your free. Let me start with a quick question. On my and if anybody wants to jump in or actually we only have a question so let me go it up.

[00:48:57]
To say I don't know if you can click on the chap and actually save yourself as well though the question is as one thing most is in the right measurement of neuro pivot this would one proposed e.u. signals would represent earlier fluctuations of brain then if I'm right yes that's an important point when we regularly try to compare to concurrently record measurements of ancient f.m.r.i. we should each be by 5 to 6 seconds which is half the time that you like to be it takes to peek.

[00:49:29]
In and then after a solid you depending on the studies one might argue that one should also h.r. rep convolve. We have tried. Defend we can all be enough I'm willing depending on that research question but we definitely need to do that sample ship that is absolutely true and that doesn't fix the similarities.

[00:49:52]
If that the point you're making Yeah I'm emphasizing the similarities they just because I think that the have not been really discussed in a conceptual way so far but I have shown you hopefully convincing evidence that there is a whole lot of similarity across and qualities to work with and we're really excited about those concordances over space and time as well in terms of time we definitely need to account for that yes.

[00:50:25]
Ellen wondering can you do modeling on on this stuff so it seems like it's going to be difficult a very convincing argument about just you know. Actually being different things is it is it you know the white American actions is it something else I mean I think all of these things if you see in principle should be implemented in models and you can do anything related to morrow and see what you get.

[00:50:57]
Yes. Difficult yes. There is one set of models that might. Work in the direction of thinking those are generous of models where typically the structural connect on the station. As a ground truth or brightening. Kind of organization and then there is a crumb a little model or some other way off coupling oscillators some model of some simply cop playing you know feeling feeling signals into the notes that are connected by that structure could act on and then see what the predicted general generative generated lots of your logical clinical would look like based on that backbone and also what the functional the a moron connects on through the what I mean would look like.

[00:51:52]
In terms of effects I say would have to go back to those they definitely should similarities so that approach him definitely if you generate electricity logical kind of assuming that what if I'm right spectrum is actually able to physiology pass through a chair if you do that you indeed retrieve the pseudo f. m.r.i. on its own that's fairly similar to the observed conduct on.

[00:52:18]
But in terms of the similarity between that f.m.r.i. and electrophysiological Khan its own and the similarities I would have to go back to those that is a very good point there is quite a bit of charitable work both from the some of the cause and collaborators and others the crap out of that that as well as around the Macintosh and other similar stories are collaborating on really answering these basic questions from that point of view that is absolutely an absolutely important area of I guess you're right you really look like your data may be able to constrain those models who are forced to price some version of their door.

[00:52:54]
You know you need noise the need to laid do something else too late you have something closer to what you're actually human beta that's absolutely yeah that is actually a very point I said before that thought I think that with. A supply parishioner with the kind of labs that do.

[00:53:14]
Those kind of modeling approaches and and then address more specifically what's what quality and what quantity of noise would have to be added to account for the similarities versus actually modeling fast and so fibers for example as a resource adjusting and seeing if that better accounts for some of those some of there it is of course there has to be noise at the source of noise that contributes to the 2 modalities are extremely different I mean having lunch and and physiological noise in the context of it from your eye as well as some more recent or by.

[00:53:54]
Family Rights work map that actually shows that there might be call that sort of sugar responses across regions are is intrinsic networks independent off the call. Activation So it means that if I'm getting if I have to supporting to start moving and whenever I move I know that there are regions of the more and that we're going to be co activated so I'm anticipating that movement maybe the best Archer is already anticipating call in arranging these areas which will shock of beautiful inable signal but it's not of your own nature.

[00:54:34]
And I don't think of it as art I just think of it as a defense mechanism of the brain that is not true and in the east all sources of us are very different if it's a logical art it's going to be a moron and of course beyond the source it's in the we have both typical each artifact which are the most artifacts I think most and then if you have the current record master and tough m.r.i. scanner only.

[00:55:04]
That it's also that that's a lot of other labs that are doing offline any comparisons. And more I should scorn as so so absolutely great idea. I think so Rupert. I separate out this is part of organizing our thank you for accepting our notation. Below liking to get your IP Yeah we're waiting for your sorry **** sorry.

[00:55:50]
Just the beginning one you're going to Ok so I really like the approach of using multiple methods to try and figure out what is what is common and what is independent. And I'm really intrigued by this repeatable observation where you had this feeling for a correlation or you could measure 0.3 years something so I was wondering if you know what's the status in the field about thinking about testing out with some kind of I'm kind of positive control or manipulation where you of oak something like you know drowsiness or having seizures or use a sedative or something that that we know pushes the connectivity in one dimension and then being able to resolve with the different measures.

[00:56:41]
That's another great idea. In addition to the. Model based approach so one what. An active causal marriage elation. And look how it affects the 2 modalities I mean one that will not acknowledge the past and studied. Quite a bit with program each year for Mariah's stages typically easiest thought of as the gold standard for defining what sleep is.

[00:57:11]
In terms of the contact changes. And try to. Recall if those have been directly compared because again each just thought of as the state defining kind of gold standard but not so much in terms of affording a source of income it's on and looking how those things change it's a good point one would have to go into the literature and.

[00:57:42]
And look at that and of course from a look from a logical intervention so you know they don't says there is there is a car in the. With so they lives and so on that one call could use it of course animal research as for some shock Carlson's doing a lot of that kind of work that a force a lot more you know active intervention we are starting.

[00:58:07]
Or we're working on. Recording they don't you're locally at our hospital intracranial really and we don't have a current f.m.r.i. but we have the ability potentially pending on the patients. To do active simulation of the cortex and see how I think he changes. The question is if I'm quick do that in the can in the current intracranial on rhyme with our later someone I think will stop causing some tensions yes aren't a way to go.

[00:58:42]
Stimulation my Mighty Heart and your space and you know yes and say just. My gut feeling is that it will tell us that there will be some good level of court and a lot of differences. But that's a great idea thank you. I think we're out of time so thank you again separate that was that was really wonderful.

[00:59:13]
A reminder you have a meeting with the great you didn't invent minutes and then what a bunch of Paki in the afternoon we're looking forward to that. Is the idea that we're eating during that meeting. And that should be that some point so. If we had you here you would be actually give you a sandwich and you're reading it without people that gets angry but now you have to provide your own sandwich but you can even during the meeting.

[00:59:42]
Again. Thank you Barbara.